Saturday, January 9, 2010
NY Times: Walk Away From Your Mortgage!
(snippets)
Such voluntary defaults are a new phenomenon. Time was, Americans would do anything to pay their mortgage — forgo a new car or a vacation, even put a younger family member to work. But the housing collapse left 10.7 million families owing more than their homes are worth. So some of them are making a calculated decision to hang onto their money and let their homes go. Is this irresponsible?
Businesses — in particular Wall Street banks — make such calculations routinely. Morgan Stanley recently decided to stop making payments on five San Francisco office buildings. A Morgan Stanley fund purchased the buildings at the height of the boom, and their value has plunged. Nobody has said Morgan Stanley is immoral — perhaps because no one assumed it was moral to begin with. But the average American, as if sprung from some Franklinesque mythology, is supposed to honor his debts, or so says the mortgage industry as well as government officials. Former Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. declared that “any homeowner who can afford his mortgage payment but chooses to walk away from an underwater property is simply a speculator — and one who is not honoring his obligation.” (Paulson presumably was not so censorious of speculation during his 32-year career at Goldman Sachs.)
And given that nearly a quarter of mortgages are underwater, and that 10 percent of mortgages are delinquent, White, of the University of Arizona, is surprised that more people haven’t walked. He thinks the desire to avoid shame is a factor, as are overblown fears of harm to credit ratings. Probably, homeowners also labor under a delusion that their homes will quickly return to value. White has argued that the government should stop perpetuating default “scare stories” and, indeed, should encourage borrowers to default when it’s in their economic interest. This would correct a prevailing imbalance: homeowners operate under a “powerful moral constraint” while lenders are busily trying to maximize profits. More important, it might get the system unstuck. If lenders feared an avalanche of strategic defaults, they would have an incentive to renegotiate loan terms. In theory, this could produce a wave of loan modifications — the very goal the Treasury has been pursuing to end the crisis.
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I think all thinking people should stop paying their mortgages just to crash these thieving bastards on Wall Street and once all of the banks collapse, claim their properties since there is no standing creditor.
ReplyDeleteSo let me get this straight...
ReplyDeleteIf a big ass corporation stops paying for a property they bought, that's a good business decision. If a common person decides to walk away or stop paying their mortgage, that's immoral.
My neighbor is elderly and can no longer make the payments on his Toyota Avalon. I suggested he stop paying. If they repo the car, no one will buy it. It may be better to just write off the remainder as a loss and move on.
ReplyDeleteWhen a house gets foreclosed, the bank owns it. They get to hire someone to cut the grass and trim the trees and guard it against vandals. If they fail to do this, the property will be ass raped and they will have nothing worth re-selling when it's all over and done.
I did not get this from going to college, am I wrong?
Why is it so hard to understand? You are NOT the homeowner until AFTER yiur mortgage is paid in full. So in reality, the bank is always the homeowner. That's why there are so many government programs to help the homeowners..
ReplyDeleteThey are ONLY helping the banks. Get it?
You all make good points; 6:49 I agree 100%...
ReplyDeleteIt's funny I was watching House Hunters today and saw this couple in Florida looking for a house around $2 million. Well long story short. The house they liked was $2.9 million but the "homeowner" was so desparate to sell the couple got it for $1.5 million!! With all the furniture/electronics, as the couple said all he took was his toothbrush! Crazy times. The U.S. is in big...big...trouble..
ReplyDeleteAll markets contract and expand. All this scare tactic shit. It's a recession folks not the end of the world,; perhaps the end of some peoples world finacially yes, but not everyones, no.
ReplyDelete8:03 problem is..this "market" is not coming back in our lifetime unless the debt is paid off (impossible) or a reverse split on the dollar, new dollar or default. THEN its a Reset back to ZERO.
ReplyDelete8:03pm. Over the years some markets expand more than others but the only other expansion close to this one WAS in the 1930's. No one is saying it is the end of the world. The Great Depression happened followed by World War II. We are still here now, the world didn't end. BUT, unfortunately the people who were alive to remember it were kids and as is said many times we don't seem to learn from history. Make no mistake about it. Times were very bad for the majority of citizens even though few on this planet were there to witness it or remember how tragic it was.
ReplyDelete8:03 is a troll but actually helps the rest of the people see the light via his ignorance.
ReplyDelete6:49 actually you are never the home owner. Try not paying your property tax and you will see who the real owner is.
ReplyDeleteTry not paying anything you owe and see who the owner is - somebody else.
ReplyDeleteUs idiots in this country are so fuckin' greedy and strung out on material "wealth" we may as well be on a morhpine drip - we'll never give it up.
Accountability is a great teacher and one of the unwritten laws of any land; soooner or later; you will pay ( or unfortunatly in our case/everyone will) it's like insurance premiums there is always 10% of these greedy fuckers willing to sue thine neighbor for slipping on a dog turd & boom there goes the ins. rates for all. If you lived within' your means all these
nusiance bills - light - heat - taxes etc. are not a problem. If you've got debt over your head
well - big problem
I agree with 3:19. You guys are wasting your time and energy arguing with these trolls who come here. First of all, you need to analyze as to why someone who has no concerns about the economy would come to this website to argue with people.
ReplyDeleteCan you say troll?
in debt we trust.....
ReplyDeleteYou don't own the damned house even after you pay off the mortgage.
ReplyDeleteDon't pay your real estate tax and see what happens.
Even if you "own" your car , don't pay the property tax and see who comes to take it.
No one "owns" anything anymore, you can't go anywhere anymore that isn't in the hands of someone or the GOV, you need a GD license for anything, so you can't even hunt/fish for food without being arrested.
When the option arm bomb hits, we'll see a massive exodus from housing.
ReplyDeleteJust because Morgan Stanley is doing something immoral, that doesn't mean that it's okay for an individual home owner to do it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's immoral, if you know you and your family stands to lose much more by keeping debts than getting rid of them, regardless of how that came to be, than you have to look out for the best interests of your family and make the decision based on what you have to gain/lose. It's easy not to think past step one in the process and say "but if I walk away the bank loses money". So what? Someone else will buy the house for a more reasonable price and there's a gain for both of you then.
ReplyDeleteThe bank writes off the loss and the Fed prints more money and hands it to the bank.
Banks and businesses do this as well.
The resulting loss of debt and the valuation of the home to a more relaistic level is a good thing, not bad, and not immoral in the least. I would argue it's entirely ethical.
No you can't just "walk away" people.
ReplyDeleteThe bank will stick you with the
balance owed after the short sell.
Plus they will garnish your wages as
as garnish any other material assets
that you own. This is happening right
now to my neighbor and he wishes he
never "walked away".
12:14 let them stick you. Go BANKRUPT! Let the system get reset to ZERO so "these" criminals never take advantage of us commoners again!
ReplyDeleteTo Anon @ 12:14PM. Nice try - you're either uneducated when it comes to mortgage debt and implication of walking away or someone with bankers inetrests at heart and pushing lies. I personally think its both.
ReplyDeleteThat is not always the case - most all states and most all mortgages are Non Recourse loans meaning if you walk away - they get the home but cannot in any way shape or form come for you in any means for the difference. Even in the few states where recourse is allowed or the mortgage was a recourse loan, a bankruptcy opens up additional options.
Those considering this should do their own research and not follow anyones anonymous comments, mine or anyone else's.
For a great article and info to start someone on their research journey, start here http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/11/before-walking-away-consult-attorney.html
IS NOT immoral to walk away prior to being evicted anyway so what is the difference?
ReplyDeleteIS immoral to buy a house you knew you could not afford, but did it because you were greedy.
Buying a house you could not afford is fraud.
I f you walk away from you mrtgage and the bank sues yo, then you file for backruptcy like the big dogs. Dont let misinfromation scare you. I know person that owe hospital $60,0000+ over non-elective surgery. He woke up in the hosptial and left with a huge bill. He just didnt pay it. So, what I'm saying is F it, just stop paying. He is still alive and working and now has a daughter. Life didnt stop.
ReplyDeleteI bought a piece of shit house because thanks to speculators, I was stuck with crap houses to choose from. Sure I was accepted for a $425,000 mortgage in 2004, but do you think I was that stupid. Didnt any of you guys see this coming in 2004? I fought my wife tooth and nail about buying this overpriced $160,000 piece of shit. A nicer foreclosure down the street sold for $72,000 and only going lower. Why would I stay in a total piece of shit house just to save a credit score. Who will care in 3-4 years? Nobody. I can afford my house, but since the banks gave every moron a loan, then they default. I have to suffer? Screw that. I'll walk away with cash in my pocket and a real estate lawyer business card in my wallet.
ReplyDeleteWhat strikes me most about all the comments regarding this subject is how abstract people have become regarding their homes. I live on a
ReplyDelete4th generation farm in Virginia. I love my house
and this farm and although very modest by todays standards my husband and I continue to make upgrades as we can and try hard to live within' our means because passing it on to our children really means something to us.
We would never think of putting ourselves into a position to jepordize that situation; it would be like cheating on a spouse; you can never take it back.
These comments treat a home like it's a piece of steel from Detroit. I think a house is not necessarily a home. Big difference.
If I owned a farm in VA that was paid for for generations, I wouldnt be bothered either. Thats not the topic for you generation RE inhereted. I'm paying on a house I hate, and I have a house thats been remodeled in the city that's paid for. My only problem is Im involved with other invvestors that are still spending money like its free. Patners in RE business sucks!
ReplyDeleteNice try 2:10 but you are WRONG big time. Many people are getting wages garnered especially those with double mortages which is NOT non recourse...duh !!!!
ReplyDeleteDo your research punk...
A little late to the party but wanted to respond to January 10, 2010 12:14 PM and January 15, 2010 2:22 PM.
ReplyDeleteThe commentor at January 10, 2010 2:10 PM is correct and gives people a great link to start their own research AND EVEN RIMINDS PEOPLE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH.
Something as a BK Lawyer I recommend people do even when handling their cases is take a proactive role in their financial lives and do their research. The poster at January 10, 2010 2:10 PM gave them good information and obviously has taken on a active role in researching correct facts and information.
The only part January 15, 2010 2:22 PM got right was that they can garner wages. IF, I repeat IF its a second loan like a HELOC - this is very rare and only in RECOURSE states AND the state allows garnishment - AND you have options which include bankruptcy. Which is likely anyway if financial problems are this bad at any rate. Bankruptcy STOPS garnishment in already in progress and will stop it before it can be put inplace when filed in time as well. Additionally, please note that a 2nd like a HELOC takes a back seat to the first mortgage. Secondary will have to wait their turn.
Do your own research folks and look it up - the commenter at 2:10 is spot on and unlike the January 15, 2010 2:22 PM at least gave knowledgeable answers and backed it up with FACTS like Recourse/Non Recourse and a great link to a great article, something January 15, 2010 2:22 PM didn't do, no surprise as his/her last line shows their intelligence in discussion with a classic ending line "Do your research punk..."
I think it is you 2:22 that needs a schooling.
Wasn't there a time back in the l920's when there was no property tax?
ReplyDeleteArizona is a non-recourse state. That means, if you have no second mortgage on your home you can walk away and there is nothing the bank can do to you but take your home. That is the contract. That is the law. Period.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot of misinformation here.
ReplyDeleteEven if your wages are garnished, you have to be working a real job, and, only $300.00 or so a month can be garnished from your wages at a time.
And unemployment checks cannot be garnished by law.